[Anonymous Player]

Anonymous Player #5389

In Castle Age, Scorpions are a viable unit.

They are on par with Mangonels and can be helpful against Xbows and Cavalry Archers.

However, in Imperial Age, they are not as useful.

The upgrade costs more than 2,000 resources and the range stays at 7, which makes Onagers and Arbalests outrange them.

This makes Onagers a strong counter to Scorpions, as Arbalests can still do decent damage to them due to their slow speed.

While Siege Engineers can help, Onagers without Siege Engineers still hard counter them.

Arbalests also do extra damage to Scorpions in Imperial Age, making them a difficult unit to use.

[kokandevatten]

kokandevatten #5402

The only bugg they could need is just cheaper imp upgrade.

No point in massing them in castle age if one cant upgrade them, they would be much more common if imp upgrade was cheaper.

They absolutely should not get +1 range, thats what seige engineers is for.
500 food and 500 gold.

Could possibly be reasonable.

[roymondous]

roymondous #5414

Nah they’re a situational unit.

Useful in low numbers and against low numbers, excellent against infantry civs.

They’re a tech that got ‘replaced’ by hand cannons and so they should be hard countered.

There’s no reason to mess with the game balance for this.

The only reason I can see is that Op is secretly hoang and wants celt siege buffed…

[iate13coffeecups]

iate13coffeecups #5413

Khmer would murder everyone

[IandaConqueror]

IandaConqueror #5412

It’s funny how some people are are asking for infantry to be buffed while others are asking the counter unit to be buffed lol.

Scorpions are a good reason why champion line isn’t used more than it is.

[IandaConqueror]

IandaConqueror #5411

Scorpions are pretty decent in team games, Paladin in front, skorpions in the back.

Absolutely eats infantry, archers, and helps the Paladin player out against camels quite a bit.

Bulgarians Khmer and Celts are probably the only civ you want to use them in Imp though.

[niyupower]

niyupower #5410

rams BBC and onagers should hard counter scorps.

But heavy scorp should have 10 or 11 p armor.

That’ll make them immune to most archers.

I wouldn’t mind 55Hp too.

That 5hp will make it even stronger agasint archers.

The issue with extra range is that once they are massed up, even a hoard of cavaliers have a tough time killing them.

Extra range means that the mass is even more effective in killing melee units.

[Max_Parker420]

Max_Parker420 #5409

I am low Elo and I love heavy scorpion with Ethiopians on closed maps.

I go halb, heavy scorp, and BBC.

I prefer them to SO because my micro is trash and SO kills all my halbs.

They are great for countering goths.

my BBC defends them from SO and halbs defend from cav.

I am 800-1000 Elo so probably different at higher Elo

[Grilled_Pear]

Grilled_Pear #5408

I generally agree.

Either reduce the cost of the upgrade or give it an additional bonus.

[Nobody414]

Nobody414 #5407

Maybe taking a little less damage vs onager

[durielvs]

durielvs #5406

try to play against a khmer who reached imperial with his scorpions.

how are the scorpions now if you improve them the range will become op

[Tambataja]

Tambataja #5405

I consider Scorpions dificult to balance because they can be broken in high numbers. +1 range makes mangonels not beying a counter anymore depending the map.

[peeking_duck4]

peeking_duck4 #5404

this is one of those changes that most definitely would need to be tested extensively before implementation

yes SE + onagers beat mass khmer, but not every civ gets SE, or even onager

on top of that people here are comparing ccivs with +1 range.

but what about khmer with yet another range vs non SE civs.

THAT is the issue

i agree H scorps coudl easily get the tech cost reduced, with higher hp, PA and even speed.

but would need to be super careful about range.

unless you either flat out remove the khmer bonus, or at the very least change it from being a TB

[Beneficial-Salt-8273]

Beneficial-Salt-8273 #5403

I think scorpions and mongos should include a person who is actually firing them.

The damn things look possessed.

[redditpeep210]

redditpeep210 #5401

*Flashbacks to heavy scorpion halb on black forest intensifies