Team bonus for 1v1 tierlist

  • This topic has 14 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 10 months ago by Ok_Ocelot4277.
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  • #47352

    This is not a tierlist for team games: this is a tierlist for 1v1 ranked.

    There is a bias towards land maps (water TBs have their own tier) and I tried to view not only how essential the bonus is for a civ’s identity, but also how impactful it is in a typical game.

    ​

    [Civs ranked within tiers](https://preview.redd.it/am6cd1u562pb1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=dced78f100408e403cea2d3cbd6ea32d2d2ae54b)

    **S TIER**

    Mongols (scouts +2 LOS) – IMO this is the best 1v1 team bonus.

    Scouting is super important for Mongols because the hunt means you often push deer so they can be a little slow to explore, and because they can get up early and want to scout around.

    Useful in the late game too; just a really nice QOL thing when playing Mongols.

    Slavs (military buildings +5 pop space) – This civ has come a long way; I used to hate on it, but now it’s actually well-designed and flexible.

    The team bonus encourages production buildings, which aside from saving res + time, it encourages you to play long ages, a subtle nod toward the strengths of the civ.

    Incas (free llama) – How the meek have risen!

    Like Portuguese, making this a team bonus and having a new civ bonus in its stead helps a lot for 1v1.

    **A TIER**

    Chinese (farms +10% food) – yes, +45 food was strictly better, but every little bit of efficiency helps a lot with this civ.

    Saracens (foot archers +3 vs.

    buildings) – it’s not a meme. +3 vs buildings is relevant in every age starting in Feudal, and it applies to Skirms as well.

    Hindustanis (camels & scouts +2 vs.

    buildings) – similar to the Saracens TB but archers are easier to group on a tile of Palisade than are Scouts or Camels.

    It’s fantastic late game as well.

    Celts (workshops work 20% faster) – the first of the ‘production speed increase’ bonuses and the most useful.

    Siege is slow to create and like Drill, which gives extra speed, it helps mitigate a major weakness of the unit.

    Siege as a class is diverse and essential to Celts, which is why this is so high up.

    Britons (ranges work +10% faster)- even at 10%, this is still a very powerful bonus.

    Brits don’t get HC or viable CA, but it’s too important to their identity.

    Notably, like Celts, this production increase is sustainable in terms of resources; we’ll touch on that later.

    Bulgarians (blacksmiths work 80% faster) – I really like this bonus.

    This is a timing-based civ and this bonus reinforces that identity.

    Combined with the civ Blacksmith discount and it makes them one of the strongest long-Feudal civs.

    Late game, it helps you tech into different units as well.

    Ethiopians (outposts don’t need stone and have +3LOS)- a nice utility bonus; I underuse outposts even as non-Eth civs and it can help protect their powerful but fragile units.

    Portuguese (techs research +25% faster) – this used to be 30% as a civ bonus, but it’s still very strong.

    Even researching Loom and Wheelbarrow frees up a Villager’s worth of TC time, never mind faster Chemistry or Monk techs.

    Portuguese are maybe a little too strong at the moment, and I expect putting this as the team bonus and the introduction of the berry bonus is a big factor.

    Goths (barracks work +20% faster) – hear me out, I think this is appropriately placed.

    Yes, it’s one of many Gothic infantry bonuses, but even with the discount it can be difficult to have the resources to fully use it in the midgame.

    Especially since infantry need to be massed, this can be a double-edged sword, where you get the first units quicker but then can’t sustain production.

    Obviously this and Perfusion go hard, but it’s weaker I think than its cousins in A tier.

    **B TIER**

    Teutons (units resist conversion) – I think this is the best monk (or really, anti-monk) bonus: it can warp your opponent’s strategy and it compensates major weaknesses of the civ (no Husbandry, no LC).

    Teutonic units are often slow and expensive (TK, Knights, siege, Monks), so having conversion resistance can be really helpful.

    Then again, there are plenty of games where the opponent never makes a monk; not because of this bonus, but because the game just doesn’t play out that way.

    Aztecs (relics +33% more gold) – the best of the relic bonuses, but again situational.

    Personally I haven’t found this useful in a yolo monk-siege push: I’ve found it most useful when I put on some early pressure, get up to imp, and use it to help flood Eagles.

    Burmese (relics visible at start of game) – free scouting info is nice and it can be a bootleg Viet TC bonus of sorts as well.

    Useless after early Castle Age but it’s a nice one.

    I want to add that it’s especially useful on Megarandom, as I’ve seen anywhere from zero to like eight relics spawn on that map.

    Turks (gunpowder units created 25% faster) – the most versatile of the creation speed bonuses: it applies to four units from multiple buildings.

    The downside is that it can come in late but in fast-Imp strategies it is very powerful.

    Persians (knights +2 attack vs.

    archer armor class) – a bland civ with a surprisingly good TB.

    If you match Knight attack with Archer armor, this reduces the hits-to-kill for Knights on xbows from 4 to 3.

    Plus, ‘Archer’ is a broad armor class, so this has a lot of utility in general.

    Gurjaras (camels and eles created 25% faster) – aside from camels, it also applies to Armored Elephants, which are very strong against buildings, and their rarely-used Elephant Archer.

    Only a few civs can play Knights into Gurjaras because of this and the bonus bonus.

    Vietnamese (imp skirm available in Imperial Age) – I don’t open Imp Skirm often with Vietnamese, as I’d rather be on Arbs, Rattans, or maybe CA, but it is a very nice tool to have.

    It’s worth mentioning that, FU, Imp Skirms take 1dmg (half) from Arbs and deal 2dmg (double) to units with six PA, like Hussars.

    Italians (condottieri available in Imperial Age) – Condos can be a great way to capitalize on a fast-Imp strategy, and are a nice tool against civs like Bohemians.

    Especially since Italians don’t get Gambesons, if you get Pavise and Plate Mail they can be decent against low numbers of Arbs in a pinch.

    Poles (scouts +1 attack vs.

    archer armor class) – similar to the Persian bonus, and it applies in Feudal Age, but Knights are still stronger against Archers because of higher base stats.

    For example, without Forging or Archer armor, this makes Scouts kill Archers in 5 hits instead of 6; that’s good, but Scouts are already great against Archers.

    There are also niche cases where this does nothing: the most common one is two generic Scouts hitting an Archer kill in the same time as two Polish Scouts (this situation is mirrored for Persians with Knights).

    There’s no way this is a C-tier bonus but +1 isn’t setting the world on fire.

    Byzantines (monks heals twice as fast) – this can be situationally powerful, especially with an army of cheap, low HP units, which is the Byzantine way, but there are games where its effect is barely noticeable.

    I think it’s best when going full clown, which Byz can totally do.

    Berbers (genitour available in Castle Age) – I think this is the weakest of the ‘extra unit’ TBs.

    Genitours are cheap and mobile, but Skirms can be massed in Feudal, so Genitours aren’t great against xbow timings, a major weakness for the unit.

    They can chase CA types, but so can Camel Archers.

    There are situations where this unit is good, but I think Skirms + Stable is a better strat for Berbers.

    **C TIER**

    Malians (universities work 80% faster) – this amounts to ‘faster Ballistics and faster Chemistry’ 99% of the time.

    I do like that you save 30 wood on the Uni, and I do think it’s good if you’re first to Imp and want to kill quickly with BBC (you kind of need to kill in early Imp with Malians), but the Bulgarian/Portuguese bonuses are better because they are more general and come in earlier.

    Huns (stables work 20% faster) – faster Paladin research can be nice, but this bonus can be very tricky to utilize properly because Scouts are so expensive in early Feudal age.

    In Castle Age, even if you get Marauders, Tarkans train in 21.7 seconds; this is ok, but they’re still not fast to mass.

    Faster Bloodlines/Husbandry doesn’t really matter either.

    Lithuanians (monasteries work 20% faster) – this one is high variance.

    When it’s good, like when you’re first up and you go double-Monastery to get the relics early, then it’s fantastic, possibly game-winning on its own.

    On the other hand, if the opponent is up first or has made units to snipe the Monks, then it’s really lackluster.

    Fast Redemption/Atonement is situationally powerful as well, but especially with the new TC bonus now, Lithuanians have a lot to do in Castle Age, and there are games where it doesn’t do much.

    Franks (knights +2 LOS) – this could probably be higher, as Knights are basically blind and important to the Frankish army.

    However, it does basically nothing if you mix in a high-LOS unit like a Mangonel or a Monk with your Knights; it’s probably most useful when raiding or scouting with Knights.

    Romans (scorpions have min range reduced to 1) – this makes Scorpions viable against mass infantry and better against cavalry.

    They still die to Onagers, so it doesn’t eliminate a weakness completely, but it helps.

    Scorps are more important to Romans than Khmer because their other ranged options are poor.

    Khmer (scorpions +1 range) – a strong bonus but too situational.

    When you go Scorps, it’s fantastic (particularly into xbows); when you go anything else (including Ballista Eles), it’s useless.

    Magyars (cav archers train 25% faster) – finally, a bonus for Magyar CA before late Imp, but a middling one at that.

    Magyars sometimes don’t have the eco to support two-Range CA in early Castle Age, unlike Huns, and often want to open Knights to utilize free Iron Casting.

    It’s the lowest ranked ‘unit training time’ bonus because it’s situational, late, and applies to only one unit.

    Cumans (palisade walls +33% HP) – my hot take is that this is best on Hideout, where you don’t build any walls in the first place and can often 2TC boom in Feudal.

    I usually don’t see players wall much if they go for the second TC on Arabia and in yolo games where they trush or build a Feudal workshop, it has basically no effect.

    Still, it can help set up the boom, so you have to give it some respect.

    Koreans (mangonels have min range reduced to 1) – I’ve had games where this is surprisingly useful but most of the time my Mangoes die as they would (other Mangoes; xbow micro; 2 Knights running in; BBC) with this not helping at all.

    It’s best when the opponent forgets about it and tries to run in with xbows.

    **D TIER**

    Mayans (walls cost -50%) – the savings are basically irrelevant.

    Maybe folks should be out there stonewalling with Mayans more often, but I don’t see it.

    Burgundians (relics generate food at same rate) – this one is much weaker in practice than in theory.

    It sounds great: each relic is basically a Khmer farmer, what’s not to like?

    Until you realize that Burgundian eco is already insane and they’ve probably been up multiple Villagers worth of res already because of the early lumber camp upgrades.

    The Aztec bonus provides +10 gold/(relic minute), whereas this provides +30food/(relic minute); yes, Burgundians want a heavy food + gold army, but they should just be making tons of farmers.

    At the point in the game where it kicks in, I’d rather get Burgundian Vineyards or start massing army, not making my eco marginally better.

    Tatars (cav archers +2 LOS) – compared to Knights, CA have decent LOS already, and importantly that increases after the Fletching line upgrades.

    Plus, CA and Hussar – which have extensive LOS- go together like peanut butter and jelly.

    I think this is one of the weakest TBs and would love to see it changed to, ‘Archery Range units +2LOS’.

    **WATER TIER**

    Dravidians (docks provide +5 pop space) – probably the best water team bonus but useless outside of water maps.

    Vikings (docks cost -15%) – a close second, as saving 23 wood/dock plus the warship discount helps Vikings wrest water early.

    Japanese (galleys +50% LOS; usually +4 or +5 with bodkin) – this could probably apply to all warships and still be balanced, but hey +3LOS is still good, and letting you pick your fights is important on water.

    Sicilians (transport ships -50% wood and +5 LOS) – the +5 LOS doesn’t really matter, as most of the time your landings should be escorted, but the wood savings on even one ship is substantial.

    Malay (docks and harbors +100% LOS; +6 and +4 with Town Watch) – I’m not sold on this one.

    It’s more defensive than the Japanese one, since Harbors obviously can’t move, but why not just make a ship and have LOS that way?

    **MARKET TIER**

    Spanish (trade units generate +25% more gold) – memes and Marketplace aside, no one trades in 1v1.

    Bohemians (markets work +80% faster) – you can exchange res 80% faster, 11!

    Bengalis (trade units additionally generate +10% food) – a strange bonus even in team games with trade.

    I don’t think 10% extra food is relevant at all, but I’d be open to being wrong.

    #47354
    the_benmeister
    Guest

    Huns are way too low. 20% faster producing stables is very good

    #47355
    Important-Joke5003
    Guest

    Good write up but you need to add in what the team bonuses actually are!

    #47356
    Sam_Sanister
    Guest

    >Brits don’t get viable CA

    ​

    not with that attitude they don’t, you don’t know if you’ve never tried

    #47357
    Lettuce2025
    Guest

    Agree on most of it, but a number of really odd ones.

    No way saving the cost of a stone wall on outposts is an A tier bonus.

    You talk about situational ones and then class this as A tier?

    You obviously don’t play with or against enough monks if you think Eth is better than teutons.

    Production bonuses are never double edged swords, that’s just repeating something someone said.

    They’re always better than not having them, because you have a faster return on investment and even if you idle a production building it means less.

    The faster production on goths rax means much less because rax is such a dead end situational building and even more so because Goths have a UT that completely negates this bonus.

    Definitely wouldn’t rate it above teutons or even A tier.

    Yes magyar CA “might” be situational but the bonus itself is incredibly good.

    Food is more valuable than gold for a large portion of many matches.

    Easily putting Burgundians civ bonus as good as Aztecs.

    It definitely doesn’t compete with vineyard’s (an expensive UT that needs a castle , even if it’s very good)

    I don’t think any of those D tier bonuses are actually D tier so long as useless bonuses exist, and those are all situationally good (Eg stone walls should be used far more, many posters have proven how underrated they are)

    #47358
    sensuki
    Guest

    Bengalis TB is the most useful on maps that become a wood game in a TG – like old Team Islands before the map size increase.

    Then the 10% food becomes relevant.

    Bohemians market bonus is absolutely cracked on Amazon Tunnel / Michi TGs where you can start trade in Castle Age

    The Magyar TB has led to Magyars being a more common pick in T90 Titan’s League and players winning with CA in Castle Age.

    #47359
    andstopher
    Guest

    Hey the Spanish one is pretty relevant in 1v1, haven’t you seen Hera’s video?

    #47360
    HendoFFVan
    Guest

    Huns team bonus is pretty much the only good thing they have…

    and it IS good.

    #47361
    mb2bm55
    Guest

    Good logic for all of the explanations.

    I think this is a little open map skewed.

    Either way I don’t know if I agree with the the tiers.

    Would practically have to go matchup by matchup with a lot of bonus’ and by “open” or “closed” map type.

    I would definitely quibble with Teutons not being S-Tier.

    Their bonus is top tier in team games and it’s even stronger in 1v1s.

    Monks are one of the strongest units in the game and you basically can’t get in monk duels with them.

    And countering their rather strong knights with monks is a lot harder.

    It pretty much takes an option away from the opponent.

    Not a lot of bonus’ do that.

    I do agree with mongols being s-tier.

    Strongest open map bonus and useful on closed maps (probably A or B tier depending on partially or very closed).

    #47362
    Legitimate_Pickle_92
    Guest

    Saracens bonus works on skirms too?

    Didnt know that.

    #47363
    m05513
    Guest

    For Malay, the biggest benefit of dock LoS is that you can easily see a bunch of fish with your docks that is typically missed with a normal dock, improving fishing efficiency when you aren’t micromanaging your fishing ships.

    It also works great alongside the harbors tech for spotting and intercepting landings, they basically become water outposts that shoot arrows.

    And you gave wood-only outposts a low A tier, so wood only outposts that shoot arrows and create boats should definitely be considered better (when you can get water)

    As for bohemians, that +80% work rate is probably the best 1v1 market bonus because:

    1.

    In marketplace, you train trade carts and research the speed boost upgrade much faster and

    2.

    If you want to research guilds (for that sweet payoff after selling 7k food), it comes in much faster.

    #47364
    flightlessbirdi
    Guest

    In my opinion Huns, Mayans, Burgundians up at least 2 tiers, Teutons up at least 1 tier.

    The rest seems fairly decent, nice one.

    #47365
    Aggravating-Skill-26
    Guest

    Really like the list, pretty much spot on with them all.

    Magyars CA’s +25% boost is probably A tier given the Civs strong CA’s.

    Bengalis is not relevant for 1v1’s but it hopefully gets a buff but not changed.

    #47366
    Sufficient_Tradition
    Guest

    Slavs are overrated.

    It doesn’t encourage you to “play the long ages”, you should place only as many production buildings as you need in the early game to avoid wasting wood.

    Incas are also overrated.

    Consider that many other bonuses give you resources/upgrades/discounts for free without having to gather them.

    Ethiopians bonus is a minor situational bonus.

    Huns are very underrated.

    Having 20% bonus on a key military production building is huge, and it’s the most important Huns bonus imo.

    #47367
    Ok_Ocelot4277
    Guest

    Actually disagree with your D tier.

    Cheaper walls is actually really nice for stone walls later on and give a tiny little boost early feudal aswell.

    And Burgundian bonus is also a lot better than you think.

    It is essentially 1 extra pop per relic in lategame, do you have a little more army.

    It is not much but it most definitely helps.

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