- This topic has 14 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by ser_stroome.
- September 24, 2023 at 1:08 pm #46923Anonymous PlayerMember
This concept was directly inspired by Mantis AoE.
He makes amazing civilization concepts, and you should watch is Serb concept (and all his other ideas) here:[MantisAoE – Civilisation Concepts – YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@MantisAoECivilisationConcepts/featured)
This is a civ concept for the Serbs, a powerful empire in the Balkans throughout the late Middle Ages until it went into decline and was conquered by the Ottomans.
The Serbian Civilisation is a quality over-quantity civilization, relying on expensive hard-hitting units propelled by an economy based on mining to overrun their opponents.
Cavalry and Siege Civilisation
Castle: Skopje Fortress
Wonder: Zindan Gate
\–Mining Upgrades affect both stone and gold miners.
Essentially, the Gold Mining Upgrade gives a +15% work rate boost to stone miners as well, and vise versa.
This means Serbs have faster mining than the Turks or Koreans, although they have to research four techs to achieve this.
\–Cavalry armor upgrades are free and instantly researched
\–Cavalry Archers benefit from Cavalry armor upgrades instead of archer armor upgrades
\-Note: Parthian Tactics still works as normal
Team Bonus: Siege Workshops cost -100 wood
Unique unit 1: Poniiar.
This is a heavy cavalry United that reduces the attack of enemy units.
Every time it attacks an enemy unit, that unit’s attack is reduced by one.
This repeats every time the enemy unit is attacked until it reaches a minimum attack of one.
This stat reduction is permanent unless the injured unit is fully healed.
While the Polniiar tears most melee units apart and is decent against archers, it has it’s own armor class causing it to take 50% more Anti-Cavalry bonus damage than other Cavalry, making its use against Pikemen or Camels unsustainable.
Notes about its ability:
**Does** stip away attack added by Blacksmith Upgrades
**Does not** apply to bonus damage.
**Does** apply to splash damage when splash damage dealt is proportional to base attack (Like with Elephants) **Does not** apply to trample damage that is already a fixed amount (Like Logistica Cataphracts or Druzhina Champions)
Stats for Non-Elite and Elite
Costs 65 Food 65 Gold
2.0 attack rate
2/3 melee armor
1/2 pierce armor
1.35 Movement rate
Trained in 15 seconds
Elite Upgrade costs 1300 food and 800 gold and takes 60 seconds
Armor Classes: Unique Unit, Cavalry, Poniiar
**Strong vs most melee Units, weak vs Pikemen and Camels**
Secondary Unique unit: Gussar.
This is a unique upgrade to the Scout Cavalry available in the Castle Age.
The Gussar is unique for having an attack bonus against other Cavalry.
This allows it to obliterate all other light cavalry lines and even trade decently against the Knight line.
It performs similarly to slightly worse compared to the Generic light cavalry line against non-cavalry targets.
Notably, Gussars are not quite as good as Monks.
It has an Elite version in the Imperial age that replaces the Generic Hussar
Stats for Gussar/Elite Gussar
Costs 80 food
2.0 Attack Rate
Deals +6/7 bonus damage to Cavalry, +4/5 to Camels, +6/7 to Elephants, and +6 to monks
0 Melee armor
2 pierce armor
1.5 movement speed
Trained in 30 Seconds
Upgrade costs 200 food, 75 gold, and takes 45 seconds.
Elite Upgrade costs 800 food, 700 gold, and takes 60 seconds.
Armor Classes: Cavalry
**Strong vs Cavalry and Monks, weak vs Pikemen and Camels**
Castle Age Unique Tech: Sapaniks: Mounted units have no attack delay.
This gives a slight benefit to your melee cavalry, but its main utility is making your Cavalry Archers extremely smooth to micro.
Costs 250 food 250 gold and takes 40 seconds.
Imperial Age unique tech: Ragusan Artillery: Fletching, Bodkin Arrow, and Bracer effect Scorpians.
Costs 1000 food 1000 gold and takes 100 seconds. (Yeah Scorpions aren’t artillery but there are already enough Bombard Cannon civs.
Use your imagination)
Archers: No Hand Cannons or Arbelester.
Infantry: No Champion, Supplies, or Gambasons.
Cavalry: No Elephants, Camels, Steppe Lancers, or Paladin.
Blacksmith: No Plate Mail Armor or Ring Archer Armor.
Siege: Everything except Siege Onager.
Ships: No Heavy Demo Ship, Fast Fire Ship, or Shipwright.
University and defenses: No Keep, Arrowslits, Treadmill Crane, or Heated shot.
Monks: Nothing is missing.
Economy: No Two-man Saw or Crop Rotation.
Summary: Serbs can either be played in a quick mobile Cavalry and Cavalry Archer style, or in a slow grueling Infantry Monk Siege Combo.
In most games, they’ll go for the former and are unique for being one of the only civilizations that can spam light cavalry in the Castle Age against Knights.
That said if they can either free-boom or are playing a closed map, they hands down have the best Scorpions in the game and are able to tear through enemy armies with Halbardiers+Siege.
I imagine Serbs overall would be a decent yet a tad weird civilization that’s very good at handling other Cavalry civilizations.
Any feedback and criticism is more than welcome and I hope you have a great day!September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46925white_equatorialGuest
There should at least be these traits
Have to lure sheep to TC with scout
Can’t finish a castle with the set of villagers who built the first 80%.
Need new vills
Castle age locked unless you make one transaction in the marketSeptember 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46926before_no_oneGuest
Most of this is very good balance-wise.
The free cav armor upgrades makes up for their lack of a strong early game eco bonus, although they still get a nice late feudal/castle age eco bonus.
The unique techs are not okay though. 0 frame delay on cav archers that are FULLY UPGRADED (and get free defense upgrades coz the cav armor applies to them instead of archer armor) is broken. +3 range on scorpions combined with +3 attack is also extremely overpowered and rips off both Khmer and Chinese at the same time.
It’s so expensive that it will almost never be seen, but if you manage to reach it you will simply auto-win if you have a decent mass of scorps.
The castle unique unit in imp is probably well-balanced; 200 HP coz of Bloodlines amd costs less than the knight-line, but only 2 pierce armor compared to 3 for the paladin, and it takes more damage from pikes/camels than other cav.
Clear weaknesses.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46927KombatDiskoGuest
Free cav armour would almost be as busted as free fletching.
Also just way too bored of European civs.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46928LTCM_15Guest
Hard pass.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46929BattleshipVenetoGuest
don’t they build castles slower?September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46930Carolus94Guest
1) Armour bonuses
1a) Free cav armour is extremely powerful and, if implemented, should be the core identity of a civ.
Here it’s just one of many powerful bonuses.
1b) Switching what upgrades affect a unit doesn’t feel fitting for AoE2.
We do have “…
also affects …”-techs, but here you’re actually removing an effect, which is atypical.
Pairing this with the already free armour is also super strong, since a cav->CA play now effectively have gotten four free armour upgrades.
2a) No frame delay is OP, unfun to play against, and a bad decision.
CA became too good with even slightly less frame delay, and you intend to make them easier to micro than EMangudai currently are?
With free armour on top of this?
2b) Scorpions with +3 extra range?
Are you crazy?
With a Khmer ally that’s the same range as a BBC without SE!
Also, if you don’t have any BS techs this tech does nothing, which is poor design.
Giving scorpions +2 attack and +1 range, or something like that,would be a better tech.
3a) The Gussar: Trash camels with more pierce armour is OP…
3b) Poniiar: Lowering armour is gimmicky, lowering attack even more so.
Taking extra bonus damage is also a bit weird, but can be framed as a unique armour class which fits the design narrative.
Seems like it would function exactly as a Boyar, but with two gimmicks instead of a streamlined design.
4a) -100W is too good as a team bonus. -75W would still be considered as a strong bonus, and -50W is probably a more balanced approach.
Not bad thematically though.
4b) The stone/gold tech is also gimmicky, but ties the design concept together really well.
You want a civ that is unstoppable late game, with early game bonuses so that you can’t stop them from getting there.
This civ could likely still die to archers+spears or a forward siege+monk push vs S tier civs, but many match-ups would be so inherently flawed.
Free cav armour upgrades saves you 150F AND 150W in feudal, as you won’t need a BS unless you want fletching or maybe archer armour for skirms.
Not the best feudal age, but a strong one at least.
Castle age is ridiculous though.
Unless you’ve died vs an S tier civ, or you’re pushed by forward siege + monks + spears, then you should just win.
Your Scouts immediately get armour, so you can pounce archers/xbows if the timing’s right.
If you upgrade them, so also trade much better vs cavalry than any other civ, so you can easily motivate continued production during age up to overwhelm the opponent.
You likewise save A LOT of resources on armour upgrade for your initial knights, have a super smooth transition to CA, have the best gold AND stone miners working at home, and as soon as a castle is up your CA are almost uncounterable as long as you’re not already pushed or severely outboomed.
Should you reach imp, enjoy your whole army getting free armour immediately while you tech to snipe the opponent’s BBC with your Scorpions 11September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46931BlatnaPertlaGuest
What are you talking about?
Serbs didn’t have architectural influence neither from Mediterranean, neither from central Europe in the middle ages.
Also, unique tech: Ragusan artillery – if you are reffering to the city of Ragusa, or Dubrovnik as it is called today – it is Croatian city and always has been, never Serbian.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46932libcommie69Guest
Potential Balance Changes:
I could see the Gussar being extremely dominant if not overpowered on Arena due to destroying other light cavalry.
I primarily focus on Arabia for my civ designs, but due to Arena, it is possible the unit needs to be rebalanced.
I did make it less effective against Monks as a precaution.
Serbs could be given Hand Cannoneers: not only is it historically accurate, but it may be needed for a civ that has a pretty mediocre tech tree.
I ultimately decided against it since Serbs do need some weaknesses, and they still have Cavalry archers and Ultra-Scorpians to deal with enemy infantry.
The Imperial age unique tech is (intentionally so) extremely overwhelming and difficult for many civilizations to counter.
I think it should be fine, since Serb Ultra-Scorpians require many expensive upgrades to set up, plus the civilization has a pretty average economy and tech tree.
Still theirs a compelling argument that siege engineers should be removed.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46933AlMusafirGuest
Didnt the Serbs literally gave Boyars?September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46934parthnanGuest
Gussar?September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46935erdemcalGuest
how do you even stop those scorpions.
only chance to beat them in early ages.
ones they are in imp straight gg for opponent.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46936Yu-go-slavGuest
Interesting concept, but I would drop the sige civilization bonus and throw in the monk bonus.
The reasons for this are historical in nature, during the Middle Ages the influence of the church in Serbia was at a much higher level than the development of siege equipment.
There are not many known examples of large and successful sieges of cities and fortresses from this period.
I can remember the use of Serbian sappers in the siege of Connstantinopol by the Turks, thats all.
Bonuses for this can be e.g.
Churches cost less, monks are trained more cheaply, etc.
Also, for wonder, I would rather put some of the Serbian medieval monasteries that were built at that time.
If you really want a fortress, in that case you should put Smederevo Fortress.
Also Imperial Age unique tech: Ragusan Artillery has no historical basis because as someone said Ragusa was never part of medieval Serbia.
As for unique technologies, one can be “Serbian Patriarchy” gives some bonuses for monks, relics, etc.
or the “Dushan Law” gives economic bonuses, etc.
Mining bonus and units are ok.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46937Inevitable_Ad_325Guest
Gusars were not cavilary, but instead land brigands (at the time, now the name refers to pirates), I have no idea who wrote that they were shock cavilary.
Free armour upgrade for Cavilary alongside all these economic bonuses is too much.
Make it so cavilary upgrades are researched 100% faster or something like that.
Unique unit is alright if you make them weaker, but other than that I think the damage reduction should only remove half the damage, for balance.
Make the economic bonus just be miners gather +15% faster.
That would be better.September 24, 2023 at 1:09 pm #46938ser_stroomeGuest
MFW every single street in Europe gets a separate civilization while China has a grand total of one civ:
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