- This topic has 17 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by IhaveSonar.
- September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47040Anonymous PlayerMember
Are the intense bonus’ the Romans receive for their scorpions (along with the Khmer Bonus) a tacit admittance by the devs that the unit is basically broken?
Heavy Scorpion upgrade cost was buffed recently but we still rarely see heavy scorpions in 1v1’s or team games.
Are there tuning options that would make sense for civs that get FU scorps to make them more viable without tipping the Khmer or Romans into OP territory?
New mechanics perhaps?
Some thoughts on potential options (note I don’t think they should be implemented together):
* Scorpions can garrison.
They take 2 garrison slots but provide 3 times the bonus arrows. (scorpions are inherently a defensive fortification weapon no?)
* Lower pierce attack but ignore pierce armor
* Attack bonus against calvary or archer class
* All civs’ scorpions benefit from ballistics
* slow effect (or movement stun) on units they hit
* reduced AOE damage taken
* infantry can repair
* Critical Hit chance (some kind of bonus damage)
I think something needs to be done.
Outside of Romans, Scorpions are relegated to defending knights in castle age from pikes when doing a forward siege workshop and when elephants are on the map, That’s about it.
even Khmer players rarely use them unless the enemy doesn’t have immediate access to the counters.
I am particularly fond of some kind of garrison mechanism because they are so hard countered off the field by onagers, bbc, and even monks.
Heck they are the unit trebs are most effective against.
​September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47050SnikhopGuest
Scorps are fine, I see them enough.
And when some civs like Khmer get to a mass they can feel almost uncounterable.
So any improvement to the base has to take that into account, you’d have to nerf Khmer or swap the bonuses around.
I’ve also seen them several times in recent TTL games against CA, and we’re seeing CA more and more at the moment, which makes defensive scorps more valuable.
So the pros are using them, and I use them at mid ELO too.
Don’t see any issue here.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47058IhaveSonarGuest
I wish generic scorps were a bit cheaper and benefited from ballistics.
They would feel so, so much better to mix into late game armies as a support unit.
Then Khmer/roman/celt scorps all might actually be good enough to be primary units.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47057Mordon327Guest
The way that I see it is that scorpions are very situational and are a high skill unit.
They die hard to most every unit and need to be massed.
If the training time was reduced by 10 seconds or so, that way you could mass them faster, I think that would make them more common place.
They do exceptional when they are massed and when they hit their targets.
So I don’t think ballistics for scorpions for all civs is great.
Probably something more along the lines of thumb ring.
This is largely due to massed scorpions as Roman’s completely wrecking archers.
It’s very satisfying.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47056CamiloArturoGuest
I’ve had games against Celts or Teutons where I have to deal with 30-50 scorpions and they decimate anything in their path.
Yes I know those are specific conditions but they are pretty strong to be honestSeptember 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47055BurtusMaximusGuest
Scorpions are interesting.
At 1300 they are a nice addition to Knights/Camel against Pikes, Monks, Xbows, CA, and other Camels.
They are a low cost and low maintence unit but they are fragile.
There are a lot of fights like Knights vs Camels where a few scorpions beind completely flip the fight.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47054medievalrevivalGuest
I only ever play civs with BBC, so they never seem to pose an issue imo.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47053xThomasGuest
Is this a troll post?September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47052inwectorGuest
No need yet.
Scorpions are a good unit with a niche usage.
Their meta hasn’t been found yet in my opinion.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47051Koala_eiOGuest
Scorpions are fine.
You just don’t play the map where they work.
The only thing missing (if any) is an attack ground command.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47049Matthew-IP-7Guest
Option 1: more range.
I think +2: +1 from ballistics, and +1 from Heavy Scorpion.
Option 2: full damage to secondary targets.
Option 3: attack bonus against cavalry.
Kinda counter productive because cavalry are supposed to counter scorpions.
Option 4: buff infantry so they’re used more, which would make scorpions seem better.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47048BubblyMangoGuest
Their problem is simply they die too easily to mangonels and bbc.
Early castle age the opponent is not likely to have his own siege workshop so they can be used, but once a single mangonel is out it can absolutely melt all your scorpions, even heavy scorpions.
Bbc also absolutely melts them, and both bbc and mangonels/onagers can be used for a similar role to scorpions, so the situations where they can be used needs to be super specific.
Want scorpions to be used more?
Make them not melt to mangonels and bbc.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47047HolyvigilGuest
I would pick a +1 range bonus.
They should outrange archersSeptember 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47046Parrotparser7Guest
I think scorpions should be enabled to keep up with archers.
They’re expensive, you can’t repurpose them (use them as anti-building utility), and they get countered by the siege unit that does serve that purpose.
Also, reduce the Heavy Scorpion’s upgrade cost.September 25, 2023 at 1:16 am #47045lfrasGuest
Hehehe, scorpios go brrrrrr
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