[total_score2]

Slavs change is great.

Also gives them help vs units like Mangudai, their monks can keep up better to help out.

Persian change starts off smart, Mahouts is so stupid it should be part of the unit already.

But the new UT is somehow even more stupid.

If you are at the point in Imperial where hussars are hitting your HCA then it’s time to resign.

Nobody is going to make HCA because they are tanky vs hussars, they are their for dps behind your own meatshield of hussars.

It’s the same reason ironclad sucks because once melee units are hitting your siege then they are gonna die anyway, but at LEAST ironclad has niche applications for rams being hit by vills or spearmen.

But this doesn’t because vills do 1 damage to HCA anyway, and spears will still absolutely melt them.

Really really silly and useless idea.

Sicilians is a step in the right direction, even giving donjons +5 pop space like a house on top of that wouldn’t be too much imo.

[Holy-Roman-Emperor]

I dislike most of the changes.

No free supplies – agreed since effect comes in a bit too late

Free infantry armor – agreed since this bonus is long due for any civ

Monks move 25% faster, fervor removed – why not simply free Fervor?

Persian UT – the thing is CA shouldn’t be talking melee damage either way.

Why would a fast ranged unit be in the front line taking punishment.

That bonus is justified for Camels (melee) and Elephant Archers (slow).

Serjeant discount – eh 5F discount won’t change much really.

Discount them by 10G instead.

Also, researching Barracks techs at Donjons could be better worded as Supplies, Arson and Squires.

No purpose of Militia and Spear line upgrades to be researched at that building.

[the_io]

For Sicilians, I’d also extend the damage bonus reduction to siege – that way their mangonels and onagers don’t die in one hit from another mangonel or onager.

Otherwise I like your thoughts.

[RobertSummers]

I can’t have been the only one that saw this thread scrolling, read the tittle without noticing the sub and thought like WAIT WHAT THE FUCK?

[Sir_Galvan]

Something to go with the Aspabarak UT for Persians: add +1 (or more) to the attack of CA in addition to the +3 melee armor.

This way, their attack matches (or exceeds) FU CA while their range lags behind, adding to their tankiness and survivability in melee.

Then they resemble Sassanian cataphracts more than your average CA.

Maybe then the cost should be increased.

Overall, I like these flavor/balance changes that give these civs unique identities

[jaggerCrue]

This guy!

FE should already hire you

[onzichtbaard]

A lot of effort went into your post and it is nicely formatted(unlike mine) which i appreciate, although i dont agree completely with all your ideas

i think slavs need something else than the blacksmith armor upgrades being free since that is also very generic

and giving monks more speed is dangerous but also quite situational/uninteresting so i wouldnt go with that

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i think slavs need the indian treatment and they should be renamed to rus since they originally represented the various east european kingdoms of which a lot have already been added

since they are coined as an infantry siege civilisation the monk identity doesnt seem to be the front of the civilization’s identity, but maybe it would be more historically accurate to make them into an infantry monk or infantry cavalry civilisation instead of a siege focus (and then give the siege bonus to another civ)

my suggestion to make them more unique would be:

* make detinets a civ bonus instead of a technology, replacing it with a new UT (maybe remove hoardings to balance it out)
* add a civ bonus that says infantry have +1 line of sight (because they used to have tracking)

i think that would be enough to give them some more identity

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for the persians:

i think giving persian cav archers more melee armor though an UT is a bad idea because its uninteresting and mostly useless, a better UT would be something that feels meaningfully impactful when you research it

i also think they should have another civ bonus, maybe giving cav archers +1/2 melee armor would be a nice civ bonus to add some more variety

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for the sicilians im not a fan of giving the donjon too much utility, since they are already a unit producing tower that can be used to rush,

i would instead consider making serjeants capable or repairing all buildings and siege units to add an interesting use for serjeants

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those are my takes at least, feel free to disagree

[Kahlenar]

Rolling in mahouts with elite jives well, but the replacement tech seems not so important.

If there was also damage added then maybe, but CA often fall off unless fully upgraded since their damage is lower than other archers.

I like the ideas with the donjon.

Maybe let it be built in dark age but with no attack and count as a barracks entirely, but still having access to barracks of course.

That might make some nasty tower strats.

[29Rogans]

it feels like the whole community understands that mahouts should be added without upgrade and replaced by CA armor/attack upgrade.

Why dont we still have this in the game, Devs pls(｡•́︿•̀｡)

[Reallyevilmuffin]

All great ideas except the CA for Persians.

I get what you’re trying to do, but I just can’t see people investing into it without bracer as such a high gold cost unit.

You’d almost be better actually making the other unique tech also affect some (probably not all) of the cost of a CA to wood also making them a mostly trash unit.

If they had cheap and spammable all types of archer that were a little meh it would be an interesting end game.

I think your Slav inf bonus is still a little weak as it is just a faster option.

A minute or so into the age and they are back to being basic, so unless rushing hard it isn’t amazing.

I would also say that they have only 10% faster monks and are still able to research fervor. 25% with no tech if monk spamming is very powerful as it is time the monastery can be making monks.

[Gwinbar]

I’m not sure about the Persians tech – I don’t think it makes Bracer-less HCA worth using, given that they’re such a gold intensive unit.

[Tyrann01]

As someone that loves the idea of Persians, but not so much the execution; I would love these changes.

Just give them their correct architecture and I am sold.

[Blocklies]

Honestly these are great changes.

Slavs smush and maa rush much better and have amazing defense vs cavalry with fully armored pikes and speedy monks.

Sicilians can actually use donjons more often in non-meme strats(tho 35 gold per serjeant is still too much, maybe 30 is good).

While Persians get better elephants and another good option that isn’t cavalry or a trash unit.

[Author]

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