Bring Respect Back to Goths

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    Member
    #4307

    3.

    Barracks and siege workshops each cost 100 wood
    4.

    Infantry are 10%/15%/20%/25% cheaper in dark, feudal, castle, and imperial ages, respectively.
    5.

    Rams have +X attack vs.

    buildings
    6.

    Population cap +10% in imperial age

    Team bonus: Barracks work 20% faster (no change)

    Castle age UT: Anarchy – Huskarls availabe from barracks

    Imp UT: All roads lead to Rome – Trebuchets available from siege workshops

    I recently read a post in which it was said that Goths are not very powerful in the game.

    I have some ideas about how to make them better.

    My idea is to give them bonuses that would make them more of an infantry/siege civ.

    This would include bonuses such as hunters not needing a drop off point, loom being available instantly, barracks and siege workshops costing 100 wood, infantry being cheaper in each age and rams having extra attack against buildings.

    I also suggest a team bonus and two unique technologies.

    What do you think of my ideas?



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    Guest
    #4316

    Those is a few.

    of us at 800 elo have been using goths and Bulgarians to do mma spams.

    It’s been pretty fleffective if you follow up with archers or towers



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    Guest
    #4324

    No drop off for hunters…

    ALL IN WITH 8 VILLS TO ENEMY BASE ON 2 BOARS AND DEERS.

    So finally scout rushers will see how it tastes when some cunt rushes destroys them in 10 minutes with using annoying strat.

    this and let them keep perfusion.



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    Guest
    #4323

    The civ changes seem fine though I feel like the pop cap bonus doesn’t need to exist, perfusion should be removed and so should the boar bonus damage.

    Better than regular goths because they have a better siege infantry push in castle age but still not enough to me



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    Guest
    #4322

    I don’t think perfusion was *that* important.

    Anarchy is what makes the civ good at what it does, as well as the huskarl obviously being a good unit.

    You have given them two dark age eco bonuses and also HEAVILY encouraged sending vills across the map ASAP to lame the enemy deer and eat them and doing that to the boar.

    Cos not only does the enemy lose the resource, the Goth player gets that food and so their own eco isn’t as wrecked.

    I think we need to play away from hunt bonuses + instant loom, not move further in that direction.

    I also don’t like bonuses that involve free units, because for that bonus not to be OP the unit has to be otherwise garbage.

    For units like serjeants that are only available to Sicilians it isn’t as big of a deal, but something like you suggest is only balanced because the militia line is arse.

    But if it were ever to become not arse, then this would be OP, so it’s just a bad idea I think.

    Goths get BBC so trebs from siege workshops isn’t that useful, like by the time you research the UT you might be close to just having chemistry anyway.

    So I’d rather conscription + chemistry.

    The other dumb thing about it on Goths is that your castles are all free to produce trebs anyway because you can make huskarls out of the barracks!

    So this tech really doesn’t help them!

    I do like the cheaper barracks and siegeshop idea.



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    Guest
    #4321

    The problem with goths is when they get buffed then theyre too good but when they get nerfed they suck.

    There has been no middle ground.

    Not even an early-pick for 3v3 tournament drafts rn and their strength is in team games.

    When they got the free loom, that allowed them too much starting gold for forward vills w/ militia and m@a and that bonus was removed for that reason.

    Free loom will never be given back to goths as it was too strong and the devs know.

    Honestly i think to make them viable they need an early-game bonus that does not directly benefit anything about barracks production or food or gold.

    Something like a wood bonus idk.

    Anything that directly benefits barracks or food or gold in the early game the devs are afraid to add as it will break them again and rightly so, they were nuts.



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    Guest
    #4320

    Goths is a tricky civ.

    Honestly they are not bad.

    The Loom bonus is decent and make your Dark Age safe. +1 Villager compared to standart civs is nice and, more than that, safe villagers in all Dark Age is pretty good agianst possibles drushes or even Scout arrassement.

    Feudal Age you can go anything you want.

    Scout Rush is a thing because the 1 villager bonus.

    M@A into Archers is smooth and pretty good because ir will save food and gold.

    More than that, you can pressure wallers with that.

    In Castle Age is no Eco-Bonus but you have full Stables and you can go Xbows.

    Against Knights civs their Pikemans as easier to help in battles or defend you.

    In Imp you HAVE TO go infantry, that’s for sure…

    but in early Imp you can go Cavaliers tech if you have a good amount of Knights.

    They will be bad fast but you will have a average powerspike until you have a good number of Hurskals, Champs or whatever you want to go.

    They aren’t a good defensive civ, so stay focus making army and trying to put pressure against your enemy.

    the idea is not winning in Castle Age, but giving you time until you reach Imperial Age and finally can use your best options.



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    Guest
    #4319

    >1.

    Hunters do not require a drop-off point.

    Some time ago I was thinking the same thing but only in wild boars.

    I like some ideas. 🙂



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    Guest
    #4318

    Goths don’t suck, they have one of the best imp games.



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    Guest
    #4317

    Goths are bad primarily because they don’t get enough in the late game to compensate for their weakness in the early game, and that weakness has always been part of their identity.

    Their intended strength has always been their late game, and their intended weakness has always been early pressure.

    The attempts to help their win rate by improving their early game, such as extending their discounts into the Dark Age or giving them free Loom have resulted in them becoming incredibly oppressive and unfun to play against.

    As mentioned before, the real issue is that their late game isn’t *that* strong even if they manage to survive long enough, and they are almost always playing from behind.

    If you’re looking to help them, I’d recommend updating their +10 pop cap bonus.

    When it was introduced, games were played with 50-75 max population.

    With games now being played at 200 population, this bonus has become less relevant, but updating it would allow the Goths to better play into their “quantity over quality” late game plan without removing their main weakness which is early pressure.



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    Guest
    #4315

    This would make for a massively op hoang rush civ.



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    Guest
    #4314

    Let’s kill two birds with one stone.

    Take Forage Bonus from Franks and give it to the Goths.

    Take away Goths bonus damage vs hunt.

    The laming sucks and it can also lame yourself.

    Give them vision of deer instead.



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    Guest
    #4313

    Unpopular opinion but not all civs need to be good or meta.

    In an ideal world, even gimmicky strats and units would be closer to the perfect 50% wr, but if you have to choose between one thing or the other I rather have some unique gimmicky civs that fall out of meta rather tan all of them being strong.

    This changes completely destroy the Goths identity of Imperial crazy infantry swarm.

    My question is, why would anyone want that to be deleted of the game?

    We lose diversity, and gain yet another infantry-siege push civ.

    Not worth, in my opinion



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    Guest
    #4312

    The entire high level meta would immediately devolve into Goths forward vills and militia rush.



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    Guest
    #4311

    Goths are fun.

    Fun to play if you can reach their full potential, fun to play against because of the ticking-time-bomb element.

    Are they viable at the top level?

    Not really.

    Would I want to give up their identity in order to make them better?

    Again no.



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