Tiering the Campaign Heroes on the Baddies Scale
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Today, I will tier the campaign protagonists on an “Are we the baddies?” scale.I call them protagonists because, as we will see, very few can even charitably be called ‘heroes!’
To do this, I’ll be using the events featured in the campaigns as well as out-of-game historical information.
**Remember, this is subjective.
It’s just for fun and discussion!**
**The What is Best in Life Tier**
You just wanted to watch the world burn and be rebuilt in your image from the bones and ashes.You wiped cities off the map and have death tolls to make 20th century dictators blush.
Conan the Barbarian’s [answer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9buo9Mtos) is not an awkwardly funny line; it’s a how-to guide.
Genghis Khan
Tamerlane
Attila the HunIs there really much needed to be said?
Tamerlane’s campaigns are estimated to have killed [17 million people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_conquests_and_invasions#:~:text=Scholars%20estimate%20that%20his%20military,world%20population%20at%20the%20time.&text=Timurid%20Empire%20at%20its%20greatest,areas%20subjugated%20to%20Timur’s%20raids.) or 5% of the world population at the time.
Genghis Khan and his successors are estimated to have [at least doubled that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire).
Estimates on Attila are impossible but the Hunnic invasion of Europe displaced entire peoples bringing on the weakening of the Roman Empire.
If peoples like the Goths, Franks, and Vandals—none known for their peaceful ways—are running away in terror from you, you have probably done enough to justify a reputation as the [scourge of god](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scourge_of_God).
That’s not to say that such men didn’t have nicer sides.
Genghis Khan [obliterated entire cities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Khorasan) but he also [tolerated different faiths in his empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Mongol_Empire#:~:text=Religion%20under%20Genghis%20Khan,-As%20Genghis%20Khan&text=However%2C%20one%20hallmark%20during%20his,religious%20persecution%20to%20his%20benefit.) and was, probably, nice to his children—even if [one may not have been his](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jochi).
**The I Have My Reasons Tier**
You were probably a nobody once, but no one will forget you now.Your combination of iron will, opportunism, and sheer cunning has brought you to power—along with the bodies left in your wake.
Anyone who rises from humble origins to power does not do so with clean hands, but can you ever really stop?
Vlad Dracula
Robert Guiscard[Vlad impaled men, women, and children alive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler) and Robert Guiscard was a [glorified bandit king](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Guiscard) who betrayed his allies, [disowned his wife and son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberada_of_Buonalbergo) for the sake of political power, and even [sacked and burned Rome for… reasons.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(1084)) The saving grace for those in the way of such men is that they never had the sheer power of those in the tiers above and below.
So, no matter how awful their tactics or motivations, not as many people died.
**The Typical Medieval Ruler Tier**
If you’re famous enough to be in the history books, you probably did your share of bad things.You commanded armies, oppressed populations, brutally crushed rebellions, and committed the occasional massacre.
If you had the talent or resources of the top group, you probably would have tried to match Genghis and company.
Good thing for the world that you didn’t!
Montezuma II
Pachacuti
Rajendra
Babur
Edward Longshanks
Suryavarman
Barbarossa
Prithviraj
Bayinnaung
DevapalaMany of the above are well-regarded as national founders but forming kingdoms and empires is never a clean process.
And neither is overseeing their collapse.
Montezuma II [conquered other peoples and suppressed rebellions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II#Territorial_expansion_during_his_rule,_military_actions_and_foreign_policy) before Hernán Cortés [found willing allies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Aztec_Empire) eager to end Aztec rule.
Prithviraj died and [lost his empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tarain) in his mid-20s, but he had [conquered other Indian polities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prithviraj_Chauhan) in his very short life before that.
The rest were unrepentant conquerors who did what medieval conquerors did.
**The Revenge at Any Cost Tier**
You were wronged—badly, but your enemies never thought you would get your revenge.You did and it was sweet.
While your crimes may warrant a higher tier, you get sympathy for starting out pretty downtrodden.
Yodit
Alaric
SundjataThere is very little documented on Sundjata and Yodit but the legends around them are similar: both were wronged, exiled, and returned with vengeance on the mind.
Likewise, Alaric served in the Roman military but mutinied after the lives of so many of his countrymen were [wasted](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Frigidus).
**The Dirty Hands Tier**
You didn’t burn down any cities or salt the earth and your death toll is very small by historical standards.On balance, you’ve probably done good in the world as a patron of arts and learning.
Your hands seem clean, but that’s only because you got your way through bribes and politics.
Philip the Good
SforzaYou probably assume Sforza was pretty brutal, being a mercenary captain and all.
The thing was, condottieri warfare was [notoriously bloodless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Anghiari), as the shrewd Machiavelli complained.
Dying before you get paid is bad business!
**The Well-Meaning Ruler Tier**
You really tried to do good and even showed mercy to your enemies (unless they’re total [jerks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynald_of_Ch%C3%A2tillon#Capture_and_execution)).Your lands got invaded, and you had to fight back (or take back what once belonged to your people).
But, you’re still a ruler in the freaking Middle Ages so you can’t get too soft or [you’ll never get past your teenage years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_the_Martyr).
Algirdas
Saladin**The Just Following Orders Tier**
You’ve done bad things, but you weren’t the one in charge: just a good soldier.Or, when you disobeyed your ill-advised ruler, it was to do what you thought was right.
Francisco de Almeida
Gajah Mada
Tariq ibn Ziyad
El Cid**The Freedom Fighter Tier**
Sometimes, you have to do bad things to bring good into the world.At least that is your hope.
Your people were oppressed—by a foreign power or worthless nobles—and you inspired them to fight back.
You are a national hero, a martyr, and may even be a [saint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc#Saint_and_heroic_woman), but people did die because of you.
Still, it was for a greater cause.
Le Loi
William Wallace
Ivaylo
Kotyan Khan
Jan Zizka
Joan of Arc**The Should She Even Be Here Tier?**
In twenty-five short years, you scarcely hurt a fly.You were even a mediating influence on your more aggressive husband.
You are a [saint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadwiga_of_Poland#Holiness).
One day, someone will put you in a game about warfare and your power will be to heal units.
Jadwiga
How would you change the rankings?
Who did I have wrong?
I think Joan should be in the Jadwiga tier as well; she was mostly a figurehead in the army instead of an actual fighter like the game suggest.
And IIRC, at her trial (which was a kangaroo court but still a trial) she said she never killed anyone.
There’s some schools of thought that Gajah Mada was actually the one who got the king killed, by exposing the details to his surgeon.
So perhaps he’s a little craftier than he lets on 😉
it’s been a while since I played all the campaigns but I remember Francisco de Almeida to be exceedingly villainous
Never played the campaign, but upvoted for the effort.
Perhaps I should check them out after all!
Saladin is true goat, when all his commanders wanted retribution against the Christians he was wise enough to convince them that it would only make things worse down the road.
He was right, and it did get worse, but at least for a time, a bunch of people weren’t mercilessly slaughtered.
El Cid did have 2 kills at that tournament and Genghis Khan did have to choose between Kushluk and 5 Cav Archers.
But Joan, Saladin, Barbarossa, Attila, Montezuma, and even eventually William Wallace…
I don’t remember them killing anyone.
Edward Longshanks should be in either “I have my reasons” or “Revenge at any cost.” The only scenario in which he wasn’t campaigning against someone who betrayed him or defied his authority was the one in which he was in crusade.
He stole the royal symbol of Scotland, brutally subjugated the Welsh, and executed William Wallace after building the largest trebuchet just to terrorize the Scots.
Dude had an axe to grind and he ground it hard
Loved this list!
I’d put Timur above Genghis for his kill count as a single reign alone – the Mongol heirs of Genghis needed a few more rulers to do all the murder he did.
He’s probably one of the most foul humans in the history of the planet.
Vlad did not impale women and children either dead or alive.
Vlad impaled CORPSES, usually soldiers, as a scare tactic.
He also intentionally spread disease among the enemy camp.
What you liked to just a stupid myth written after his death.
Amazing post!
Can’t disagree really.
Of course, some protagonists fit into different tiers at different points of their lives/different scenarios of the campaign if it is represented.
Saying 10 million deaths would make modern dictators blush is not true.
Mao Zedong estimates are 40 to 80 million.
Sure Genghis killed a larger percentage of the population but he did not cause as much suffering or death as modern day dictators.
I’d rather not debate over who belongs in what tier or whether someone should be placed higher/lower than others within the same tier.
Judging by what I saw in the campaigns and some of the research I did on the side as I played them, they all seem to be placed close enough to where I’d expect them to be (aside from Joan who could arguably fit together with Jadwiga).
I actually just finished going through all the official campaigns a couple weeks ago coincidentally.
However, I feel like there’s a few people that aren’t even present on the list when they ought to be.
Just off the top of my head, I’m thinking primarily of Roger Bosso, Bohemond of Antioch, Roger II, and Cuauhtémoc.
There’s a few more I’m thinking of to a lesser extent: Abd ar-Rahman al-Ghafiqi, Viracocha Inca, and Topa Yupanqui.
I assume the historical battle protagonists were left off due to being one-offs, but at the same time, you only had us playing as Robert Guiscard in the first mission of the Hautevilles, so I feel like the other three protagonists of your campaign ought to be represented on the list as well.
Also, Cuauhtémoc may as well be the outright protagonist of Montezuma’s campaign given his narration and in-game “appearance”.
Honestly, I’m still surprised he didn’t show up as an actual hero unit in Montezuma 4, even in DE.
Edit: I just remembered Jogaila and John the Fearless are missing as well.
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