Suggest Giving Portuguese Organ Guns Hussite Wagon Armor Class and Renaming It to Vehicle
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In my opinion, the Portuguese have become overpowered on closed maps due to their berry bonus, allowing them to quickly advance to the Castle Age.
This puts non-Redemption civs at a disadvantage, as 8 Organs can easily wipe out small groups of monks.
Although Mangonels can be an effective counter, they must be massed to be successful.
To address this issue, I suggest giving Organs the Hussite Wagon armor class and +30 Hussite Wagon Armor, which would allow Mangonels, Onagers, and Siege Onagers to do extra damage against them.
This would help balance the game and encourage players to make Mangonels, a unit which is often underutilized.
The best counter to Portuguese in my experience is towers.
And cavalry mass.
Maybe making them even more vulnerable to watch towers would work?
Mango mass is very hard to build up and even then they probably could die to organs.
More mango damage vs Organ Guns is certainly an interesting idea.
Casters and pros don’t really seem to think of multiple mangonels as an Organ Gun counter, though.
I think that massing 4 of them risks suffering a lot of damage while you build up (in one or two siege workshops?).
At that point, Organ Guns can definitely one-shot the mangonels so the counter becomes micro-dependent.
That’s fun, though.
Some minor objections:
> give Organs the Hussite Wagon armor class and then +30 Hussite Wagon Armor
Separate armor class please, abusing a different armor class is a game design and programming anti-pattern.
This is why we have a Camel armor class now instead of camel units having Ship armor like back in the day.
Just give the mangonel line 10 bonus damage to a new Organ Gun armor class.
> This would let Mangoes do an extra 10 damage against them (soft counter), Onagers +30 (hard counter), and Siege Onagers +45 (deletePortuguese.exe).
The imp considerations aren’t that important when Portuguese can counter (Siege) Onager with monks or BBC.
Massing mangos is just not a thing tbh.
I’m not sure why you focused on that as a counter.
I dont think they really need a nerf, full cav actually kills organs pretty well.
Lmao who can get 4 mangonels out in time and micro them well enough.
Ha.
No.
Mangonels are not a good counter to organs.
Towers ok.
Britons with extra range not terrible.
Not a fan on ruining organ guns due to them being decent on arena.
Same goes for conqs and janissary.
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