Rare Situations in Which Specific Units Are Not Advisable
- This topic has 21 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 1 year, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I think the following units could be considered situational or not meant to be relied upon: Jaguar Warriors, unless you are able to pressure your opponent into training Champions; Flemish Militia, unless you are going for the Flemish + 40 paladins + 10 BBCs combo or in a last resort; Ethiopians Shotel Warrior; Malay Karambit Warrior; War Elephants as Persians; Coustillier as Burgundians, since I prefer to use fast castle Cavaliers and then Paladins; Flaming Camels, unless the enemy is using a lot of Elephant Archers; and Throwing Axemen as Franks, as Hand Cannoneers can be trained without needing an upgrade.
What other units would you add to this list?
Longbowmen: Only useful in treaty or long Michi maps
Better just stick to Briton Arbalesters unless you want to show off your anti-castle archer 11
Fully upgraded cataphracts as a surprise against an infantry opponent is what I live for.
Throwing Axemen are pretty viable in Castle Age especially since Frank castles are so cheap.
I like em generally, even if I think Gbetos are more fun to play with.
Karambits are actually a little underrated.
The trick is to mass up 15 of them at least and throw them in waves on vils gathering away from TCs and castles.
They can also defend against rams in a pinch.
I think among these Jaguars are in the most need for a rework.
I love the unit’s look and attack sound but the stats and usability are so bad.
Shotels aren’t terrible to quickly bring out to counter eagles or eskirms, they have a place.
Flemish militia are in a stupid balance position, same as sarjeants.
The unit sucks so nobody makes them, but you get a UT that produces heaps of them in a convenient way, so if the unit became good the UT would become busted.
Karambit warriors can fill up rams super easily?
I guess they can at least defend from ram pushes too, or counter monks?
Jags are garbage.
Taxemen are for castle age handling pikes or rams I guess, also don’t get minced by eskirms so not as bad as you might think.
War elephants just need too much eco to get to.
I think you forgot how terrible samurai are, berserks are crap units too but Vikings have nothing else so they produce them.
Shotelai are a decent breakout unit, in case everything else is going wrong.
Karambit warriors are great against nearly anything once massed.
Coustillier are midgame terrors due to their speed and front-loaded damage.
Flaming camels end games against massed cav civs.
TAs are a great momentum addition that counters pikes in mid-castle without being weak to skirms.
Most of these are wrong.
Here is a big “IT DEPENDS”.
Some UU are legit awful, like Persian War Elephants.
Others are outcompeted by some standard units but are otherwise “fine”.
And there are others who are either very strong, or fill a niche within their civ’s army that nothing else does.
> Coustillier as Burgundians, I personally just go fast castle Cavaliers with them and then into Paladins.
devs plz buff
Team game fast castle sling into massed Shotel Warriors is a legit strategy.
LOL.
Dravidians: Urumi swordsmen
The only Elite castle infantry unit (1 population) that has 0 pierce armour.
Absolutely lame, they die like pikes to castle fire…
THEY COST GOLD.
Contrary to popular opinion, they are not overpowered.
I personally think they must be buffed.
It’s interesting how your list is so different from what I have!
Considering only 1v1 open maps (as I only play those)
1) War Elephant – too expensive and too easy to counter unless you have a huge mass.
But if you do somehow end up getting a huge mass (say 40+) of FU War Elephants, you probably could have won the game already with Paladins
2) Ratha: Takes loads of damage from skrim/pikes and thus cannot really function as a knight type unit well.
Is slower than cav archers, has less attack and has larger hitbox.
Also harder to mass because comes from castle
3) Tarkan: Very situational unit.
Has the worst combat stats of any heavy cav in the game and usually raiding can be done effectively with hussar while trebs take down buildings.
4) Kamayuk: A strong unit with almost no hard counter, is a jack of all trades but master of none.
Whatever role it performs well there is another unit that does that better/cheaper.
Need something vs cav?
FU halbs are cheaper and do just as well.
Need something vs archers?
You got FU skirms/eagles.
Need to fight infantry?
You have slingers.
5) Genoese Crossbowman: While they are more tanky than Italian arbs (Arbs take 6 hits to die from FU Hussars while Genoese take 9 for example), they are more costly to tech into, are outranged by skirms/arbs and are harder to produce.
Thus they don’t get used often
6) Gbeto – A very cool unit, both in application/lore and animation.
Unfortunately, while being fun to use, they are just so squishy and are barely any more resistant than arbs (just +5hp).
But they need to get up close to target to cause damage so they need to be baby sat and are easily countered with cav, and any ranged including skirms
7) Mameluke – a great unit to counter either slow melee units or cav.
However, they get countered by camels and arbs.
On top of that they are super expensive and so are hard to mass and thus not seen often.
If you need to fight cav, just make camels which are some of the best.
8) Serjeant – again a cool unit with a very interesting mechanic.
However, they are very situational because they are actually quite expensive and typically don’t really do anything that other units cannot do more cost effectively.
They are kind of like weaker version of Teutonic knight.
Maybe if they could repair siege equipment, that would make them more interesting and useful
9) Teutonic Knight – Making these is basically a game losing condition (I think something viper said).
They basically have the same issues as serjeants.
Slow infantry are just not very viable.
Maybe if they had some healing aura around them (heal surrounding units passively at some 20h/minute, but effects do not stack), that would make them more useful.
Or they gain some stat boost (say 0.05 speed) for every relic collected.
10) Rattan Archer: These are OK, but just wanted to have 10 on my list so added this one (was debating putting Longbow here).
They are basically the child of an imperial skirm and a arb.
Basically anything these guys do well something else on the roster does that as well or better.
Yes they can have a niche as a raider, but they still need to be baby sat as they are not that fast and still can be caught by cav and destroyed.
Tarkan: What even? 11
Coustillier???
Wtf lmao.
That UU is amazing.
This bad boy costs 55F/55G.
So it’s 35 food and 5 gold more than an eagle warrior.
Comparing it to an eagle…
1.) **Double HP**
2.) Isn’t countered by swordsmen
3.) Even stronger vs archers (by a LOT)
4.) Even better at sniping siege units
5.) Gets countered by pike (but slaughters pikes if micro’d properly, even cost effectively.)
6.) Better raiders killing vils in 3 hits castle, or 2 of them killing vil in 2 hits.
Garunteed 2 hit kill in imp.
7.) Worse cost effectively than eagle vs heavy cavalry
8.) Roughly equal vs monks, as coustiller 1 shot monk/ 2 shot with sanctity.
9.) Even AFTER the charge attack, same DPS as eagle.
Eagle is considered awesome unit.
How is this unit not amazing?
Many think it’s OP.
I think it should be as costly as mameluke IMO.
Throwing axemen are amazing if your eco allows for it.
Due to cheaper castles, you can tech into them right in the moment the enemy starts massing pikes mid Castle Age.
Moreover, you already get the attack uogrades for them when going knights.
Going a classic Frank game it feels like a perfect flow because it ensures that you have the upper hand throughout all of Castle Age which leads to a map position from where you normally don’t lose the game.
Jags: Yeah, pretty situational, you want to go for them against very few units, like TK, Samurai, Berserks, Japanese or Slav Champs (not cost effective).
Also never forget that, unlike Champs, they’re a faster unit to tech into, and do their thing without needing Garland Wars
FM: Panic button or Game-ending button, they pair the best with BBC and Skirms (Archers or CA are their best counters), unless you are facing an anti-infantry unit, in that case eco and HC or Palas are better.
Shotels: If you don’t have Survivalist’s micro, they still are valuable as raiding units, anti-Eagles and building razers.
Karambit: Malay anti-Eagles, annoying if you’re slow pushing.
With high numbers and units like HC and Archers without Thumb Ring, I wouldn’t disregard them
Chonk: For a late addition to Paladins in Team Games
Coustillers: Very good unit.
But not a go to if you’re playing open maps.
Build your defense and start making them when you have a Castle up.
Snipes low HP units and you can hit and run small Archer groups
Flaming Camels: Team Game unit, to shred chonks
Axemen: Anti trash, Anti – infantry.
Frank eco allows you to Halb + Siege and Axemen counter Skirms.
If gold’s not a problem, Cavalier + Axeman can win you the game (no Elite needed)
I know you removed them, but Keshiks are f-ing awesome, an omega-cost-effective Knight with the pierce armor of a Paladin
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
