[Anonymous Player]

By adding these changes, I think that the water landscape will become much more diverse and interesting.

Players will be able to traverse the seas more easily and create unique strategies using the new buildings and technologies.

[dileep_vr]

The Rome at War mod for AoE2 has a substantial water-game overhaul.

You might want to research what they did.

[m0thercoconut]

Also, we need attack submarine to counter the piers!

[WastelandMedic93]

Vils should be able to swim 👀

[estDivisionChamps]

I enjoy these posts.

I like seeing how other people think about the game.

[Suicidal_Sayori]

This rework fails to assess the biggest problem of water play which is lack of unit variety tho.

I’ll never get tired of saying this: it makes zero sense that one of the three basic units of the water triangle is A SUICIDE UNIT.

[PuddingKind]

Id make piers cost a lot of wood.

[Gingerbread2296]

That East Asian bonus combined with Japanese fishing ships is super strong

[Orinoco123]

Ive seen somebody’s suggestion on here of having water borne gold sources, think that’s an amazing idea.

So like a whale tile you can fish that brings in gold not food.

Realistically should only kick in in castle/imp.

[total_score2]

I still think fundamentally it is the fishing ship that needs an overhaul.

If you allow a bunch of seawalls and other such mechanics to prevent water snowballing, then great.

It means that the civ that gets to feudal first on a short rush water map doesn’t just win on the spot.

But the trouble is, think of this thought experiment.

Pretend there was a map like four lakes, except it only had 2 lakes.

Each player gets their lake at the back of their base.

Pretend also that there is rocky terrain, so only one dock can fit on that lake.

Both players will dock that lake in dark age, and sneaks are impossible.

That lake is super duper safe.

What civs are viable on such a map?

Only those with a dark age bonus that allows them to churn out as many fishing ships as possible in dark age.

This would be an awful map.

What I’m getting at is that fishing ships make dark age bonuses too strong, because they can snowball into an extra fishing ship for aaaaages, which pays off way way harder than it does on arabia which is what these dark age bonuses were balanced around.

That’s why Lithuanians are a decent arabia civ (dark age bonus is useful) but busted on hybrid maps (along with a few other civs boasting similar issues, like Malians, Persians, Japanese although these also actually get bonuses for the fishing ships themselves).

So it becomes impossible to balance these dark age bonuses to be strong enough on arabia to make them competitive with the best civs, but not overbearing on maps with dark age fishing ships.

Adding walls and such means that water snowballing is prevented to a large extent, but water snowballing happens *even if water cannot be contested*.

I think fishing ships should cost like 90 wood or something like that, or be restricted to feudal age (or castle age even).

[Koala_eiO]

Sea towers are definitely a thing that needs to exist.

I wouldn’t mind if fishing ships could build them.

[Mathantastic123]

I like the piers and drawbridges, its interesting to be able to build a bridge accross places, though it kinda makes maps with water kinda unwallable, since u can always just build a pier around it to cross the wall.

I like the idea of forbidding ships from crossing deep water until castle age, but that tech is kinda useless, pick one, either allow it for free in castle age, or add the tech.

Though that will make it so that on maps like islands players will just boom until castle age, since they won’t be able to access each others fishing ships.

I don’t like the sea tower since it seems like too good of a defense, and itll just fully protect ur fish until castle age.

A suggestion I would do, would be to let villagers build transport ships, kinda like melee units build siege in aoe4, so transporting would be significantly cheaper, and easier to get, since it won’t require a 175 wood of a dock, nor the production time loss from not producing a military unit during that time

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