Concept of Jurchen Civilization
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This idea for a civilization is based on the Jurchens, a semi-nomadic steppe civilization from Manchuria.
They specialize in archery, with a flexible early game economy able to handle any opening.
However, they don’t have the iron casting upgrade, making their melee units less powerful in terms of damage output.
The Jurchens have East Asian architecture and their wonder is the Cloud Platform.
Their civilization bonuses include hunters collecting 35% more food from animals, archery range units regenerating health, archery range technologies costing 50% less, and Steppe Lancers training 30% faster with Elite Steppe Lancer costing 50% less.
Their team bonus is repairing costs 33% less resources.
Their unique unit is the Guaizi Ma, a heavy cavalry unit that deals 33% trample damage to enemy adjacent units.
It is strong against archers and most melee units but weak against Pikemen, Camels, and Monks.
The Jurchens also have Castle Age UT Fire Lances, which grants Steppe Lancers +6 attack, and Imperial Age UT Gunpowder Defense, which dissipates splash damage from Hand Cannoneer and Bombard Tower projectiles.
Their tech tree has a complete archery range, limited cavalry, no infantry or navy bonuses, and limited siege and monastery options.
In summary, the Jurchens have a strong focus on archery and cavalry, but lack a strong infantry and navy.
Overall, the concept fits well into the game and provides a unique playstyle for players who enjoy archery-based civilizations.
r/JurchenCivConcept
25th post about Jurchen civilisation concept this week
The UU looks similar to a battle elephant.
Idk I think you should give them pikes.
Especially if they don’t have access to even iron casting.
Because what’s their anti cavalry?
Just heavy camels with 7+1 atk?
Maybe you give them iron casting And cavalier, take away the last cavalry armor upgrade and give them pikeman
Edit: not that a full archer tech tree is overrated, it isn’t.
But other civs have better or at least comparable archers.
Vietnam has more hp and full tech tree (except Parthian tactic), britons have more range, saracens have full vanilla tech tree, etc.
Idk.
The hp regen is interesting tho
With passive training time reduction and a castle age UT for steppes this powerspike is just too much. +6 atk in castle age?
That melts a palisade in a single hit with a group of 6.
And they are trained even faster so you can mass them.
What even is the counterplay?
That’s just too broken.
Mongols steppe lancer rush as it is can be very difficult to defend against and all they need is forging for +1 atk, very oppressive.
Navy unplayable.
No ff or galleon, you can’t pick this on hybrid or water maps.
But on land maps that steppe spike is too broken, would be picked every game on Arabia.
No hate on you homie, but at this rate I just want to pay off Microsoft so they release a Chinese DLC with new civs just so that posts like these stop appearing on my feed.
why is the Navy so bad?
no civ lacks both Fast Fireship and Galleon.
this is weird and unnecessary.
They are unplayable on water with that.
also, you mentioned Halbs twice?
This is some F level trash .
As I mean their trash units are going to be so bad.
Spears and hussars with no advantage , not even an eco, and lacking even mediocre upgrades.
Even Turks have full upgrades for their base line trash, a persistent eco , and have ultra buffed hussars in compensation.
I think they should at least have pikes.
The Guaizi is interesting, my first reaction was also “it’s just a fast elephant”.
It’s better than battle elephants because it takes less damage, but more importantly it’s significantly faster and costs less food, some of the bigger weaknesses of BEs.
The SL seem too strong.
Yes the castle tech is expensive, but if you can get it, there’s no counter from a melee civ with good micro.
So while most players won’t be able to leverage it, there will be some and they will just annihilate.
The aoe dmg on HCs is interesting, they’re such a niche unit, I guess it’s dependent on the extent of the aoe.
It’s potentially going to be OP in some arena scenario.
I don’t understand why you gave archers a better regen rate?
Their the lower hp unit and by Imp their fully regen in 2mins.
That’s a 50% hp regen rate per min 2nd only to Bersersk (57%) & the CA regens at only 12% hp, 4x slower
As a nomad Civ I would have thought it would have favoured CA.
As nothing historically about Jurchens shows they supported an elite foot archer core.
2nd complaint about history is the Civ that is famed for “Iron Pagoda” lacks 2 forging techs.
Jurchens Cav were well know for being heavily armed and superior Cav tactics.
I think the Civ is well designed it just doesn’t say Jurchens.
I’ll take more SL Civs any day and 11+7 attack could be devastating.
UU is interesting enough, probably more OP in Castle age then you think.
A FC UU build is more then worth it.
Two Guaizi Ma train in 30secs from 1 castle (650res) have 440hp & cost only 360resources
4x knights train in 30secs from 4x stables (700res) have 480 hp costing 540resources
Note* you need 4x stables to keep up production.
The knights need iron casting (250res)
Jurchens would need a Stable (175res) for Bloodlines
With the extra 260res diff between unit cost every 30secs you can add SL’s for extra dps bonus which leads to next issue is the UU also has 33% trample damage on top of this.
I’m not gonna do the maths but with one extra SL which you can afford you probably beat the 4x knights.
And on top of that the larger this fight scales and the longer the knight player waits the better it gets for Jurchens.
Essentially what you have here is a snowball situation that has almost no counter and is more the Viable to get to.
The UU needs at-least a 30sec creation time, it’s a War Elephant strength unit thats actually useable.
Also the Elite doesn’t need 17 attack, 12 or 13 is viable with the trample.
It has 270hp and 3+4p armour moving around at 1.43 the list of viable counters is almost non existent.
Good work and keep the designs coming!
you should add info about techs such as archer armour, parthian tactics, bracer, thumb ring, bloodlines, husbandry, squires, etc
Oh boy, where to begin.
Guess I’ll start off with the positive stuff:
First off, all the civ bonuses are decent, at least in isolation.
The Imp UT is also interesting, but it would have to be carefully calibrated to not make BBTs OP.
I also respect the decision to not have them get iron casting/pikes.
Now to the critiques:
Firstly, I think that their eco bonus + archer bonuses are a bit much.
The longer hunt nets you 300+ extra food, gathered from the fastest source, allowing for a fast Feudal and/or very powerful M@A -> Archer build.
This gives you a huge opportunity to dish out a lot of damage in Feudal.
Then in Castle Age you can get Xbow/Thumb ring faster than most civs, giving you another significant powerspike (on your regenerating archers, no less).
This might be fine if they had a particularly bad late Castle/Imp.
But once you get a castle up, you basically get access to a battle elephant that moves 50% faster and is less food intensive…
Like, giving a cavalry UU with the speed of a Boyar more HP than a Frank Paladin **in Castle Age** just seems like a Meme-Tier design.
I get the idea of a tanky cavalry unit, but 120 HP would be a notable advantage over other cav units, and 140 HP would be exceptionally strong in Castle Age.
But we have this guy that only costs 33% res more than a knight but has 2x the base HP, almost Cavalier-level damage, Paladin armor…and I almost forgot the trample damage.
Sure, there’s potential counterplay in the form of monks, but apart from that, this unit has nothing to fear in Castle Age.
Pikes can be avoided easily, or shot down with your faster-teched, regenerating Xbows.
And speaking of xbows, it takes the enemy **100 shots** (if enemy has bodkin and you have chain barding) **to kill 1** of these guys.
I don’t know why, but a lot of these civ concepts seem to work under the assumption that people won’t pay attention to them unless something about them is blatantly and hilariously OP.
And in TGs, this would be **the** definitive power unit, making Paladins and Battle Elephants look like amateur hour.
Also, faster training Steppe Lancers that can get up to 16 AT in Castle Age **and** have 50% off the Elite tech in Imp?
Seems overdone as well.
tl;dr the concept is fine-~ish, but what you have right now is a civ with a strong early eco bonus, strong tech powerspikes in Castle/Imp, very strong UTs and a wildly OP UU.
The “weaknesses” of the civ are mostly things that can be done without (swordsmen) or are more than compensated by the enormous numbers on the UU/UT and superior timings with the key tech discounts.
I would tone the numbers way down (Range and Elite SL Upgrade discounts 35%, Iron Pagoda 150 HP max, -1 PA, and probably closer to 1.2 or 1.25 speed and 25% trample, Archer Regen 5/10/15).
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