Assist Me in Grasping the Fundamental Error that Resulted in My Team’s Defeat (Blue, Cyan, Green)

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  • #22828

    If there is a better place to upload the game replay file, please let me know.

    It seems that the lack of trade from Blue and Cyan was the main reason for their team’s defeat.

    Although Green’s play was not great, if Blue and Cyan had built more trade carts, their team could have won.

    The author is seeking feedback on how they can improve as a team and would appreciate feedback on all three players.

    The replay file has been uploaded to Google Drive for others to review.

    #22829
    crazyyoco
    Guest

    Personally, I would say pocket is to blame for the loss.

    Green castle age time was very bad, especially since he didn’t wall at all. 21 min is super late, while making 2 stables that weren’t used until he got to castle age.

    Castle age push through the middle was okay, I guess.

    Would be better if you tried to get blue to make siege for you, and you only make knights and then push purple since he only walled with houses.

    Pushing through the middle can be walled at a few choke points, so it’s hard to make it work.

    Also, you need mangonels next to your rams to prevent stone walling behind.

    Using onager to cut around the edge of the map into your allay base was unnecessary, just cut next to the yellow wall.

    It’s a lot faster.

    Green needed more stables earlier, only having 2 while researching paladin and making 30 cavaliers was quite bad.

    He did add them later, but needs to be done early.

    Getting the first blacksmith upgrade at 1 h 30 min didn’t help.

    Green for some reason almost never fought with his teammates, if he helped blue, they could have killed 2 enemies easily.

    And he should help teal because his army of cav archers and halbs kept dying to Spanish archers / skirms.

    Blue played quite well.

    He didn’t really need much trade since he was mostly making halbs, and he had vineyards researched.

    Could build more production buildings forward, he kept losing his army because it took too long to reinforce it.

    Teal should get more eco upgrades than only the ones in lumber mill.

    He also needed to get infantry upgrades in blacksmith and if he went for siege ram instead of trebs he could push a lot more.

    Also, red was probably a bit better than everyone else.

    #22830
    raids_made_easy
    Guest

    Warning, full-on essay incoming because this was a pretty long game (hey I just found the reddit comment character limit for the first time!) I’ll start with the broad strokes here:

    If you’re going to be playing BF, all three of you really need to improve your booming ability.

    On BF (at least at this level) you pretty much always want to go for a booming focused build, which none of you did.

    You also want to wall immediately, which again none of you did.

    On BF it’s generally recommended to send a scout forward as soon as you get your 4 starter sheep, then send 2 vils forward (with loom before you expect to possibly run into enemy) as soon as you get your first house built.

    I also like to build my first lumber camp very near to where I build my wall.

    It allows you have workers nearby when you need to reinforce the wall later, and also means your wallers can quickly get to doing actual work.

    The downside is usually a long walk time from your base for the new lumberjacks.

    For blue, you did very well throughout most of the game.

    As mentioned, an earlier boom would have gone a long way but that was true for all 3 of you.

    I would recommend thinking about improving your army control and composition choice in the future.

    You were fielding halbs early on before even seeing what army your enemy had.

    Halbs are purely a counter unit, generally not considered a good thing to open up with before you know what your enemy has.

    To make matter worse, your enemy was goths so there was almost 0% chance he would send cavalry at you.

    The HC was an excellent choice but vs goths you would much rather support them with LC and later paladin when you can afford it.

    Maybe champs instead of pals if the goths insist on pure halb spam.

    Your army control could be improved as well – remember that your meatshield’s job (the halbs in this case) is to keep the DPS (HC) and siege (BBC) alive.

    There were a few times you just kinda aimlessly sent your halbs to take a bad fight under an enemy castle while leaving your HC and bombards completely exposed to an enemy rout.

    For teal, you need to work on improving your aggressiveness.

    You had a very large and very useable army for quite a long time but just kept it sitting in your base doing absolutely nothing.

    This allowed red to build a whole military production sector on Blue’s side of the map, leading to blue fighting a 3v1 battle for a little while.

    Army control is a big issue for you as well.

    After the fighting started on your side, you were constantly letting your units get jebaited into the chokepoint a few at a time.

    If you’re not watching your units to prevent that from happening you should try to keep them far enough away from the enemy army that they can’t lure you into a meat grinder.

    You were getting shredded by spanish archers in post imp, which should NEVER happen.

    For green, you also need to work on your aggressiveness but also think more about where to attack with your army (especially if you are pocket in a 3v3!) There were at least 3 or 4 points in the game where you likely could have ended things if you had used your army more wisely.

    Blue cracked open the defenses on the left side fairly early, but you guys never got in any good raids after crushing purple’s base and getting stuck in the choke between purple and yellow.

    If the enemy’s eco is exposed and you have a big army of paladins, just ignore their frontline castles and run straight into their eco.

    Forcing a fight in the enemy’s eco is almost always going to be a good thing for you, particularly on BF where people rarely castle very thoroughly inside their eco.

    If you can take out a big chunk of the enemy’s trade in particular, it will be a massive setback for them that will be more than worth the sacrifice of a paladin army.

    ​

    Some other points I noted throughout the game, mostly in chronological order (may overlap with some of my earlier points):

    * You guys were very, very late to wall.

    In fact, you left 2 pathways completely open for most of the game.

    The enemy barely took advantage, but they could have played like an open map and feudal rushed you with absolutely no problems.

    Aside from protecting your base, walling serves several other important purposes.

    First, it often allows you to secure extra resources.

    The enemy team gained 9 boars, as well as some stone and gold piles by beating you guys to the punch on walling the middle.

    Getting favourable walls also makes aggression MUCH easier later.

    Remember how green couldn’t push through the choke in castle age because yellow kept walling behind?

    That could have been prevented with ranged units, sure, but more to the point it would never have even been an option if the wall was at the enemy’s end of the chokepoint.

    Finally, it means you can build safer castles.

    Making a castle right behind your wall (and thus the enemy wall) is just begging for a treb to come and safely tear it down in imp.
    * Green left a pack of boars just sitting on the table.

    That’s about 1000 food you could have picked up for the price of a mill. 5-6 farm’s worth of wood is nothing to sneeze at, so you should always take boar packs when possible.

    I always try to look around before my free food runs out so I know if there’s a boar pack to go for before I actually have to build farms.

    There is a downside to keep in mind though: You may end up without enough food to click up to castle if you’re not careful, due to walk time to the boar pack combined with carry capacity causing your hunters to float a lot of food in their inventory.
    * Eco balance was really lacking for all 3 of you in the early game.

    At one point in feudal green had 17 on wood while there were still deer around as well as the aforementioned boar pack.

    I suggest looking up a 3 TC boom build to use on BF, it will help you get your eco (and therefore army) up much much sooner.

    Even if you go full boom before making army, you should be ready to attack by ~35 minutes at the latest on BF.
    * I don’t know why you guys all 3 seem to be fixated with building a barracks + 2 stables in feudal, but it’s really not necessary on BF.

    That’s a lot of wasted wood that could have been spent on TCs and farms.
    * Eco upgrades are really lacking for some of you as well.

    Teal never touched his farm upgrades for the whole game, which is very bad.

    Green slept on double bit axe longer than he should have, especially with 17 lumberjacks in feudal.

    Bit axe is generally considered the highest priority eco upgrade, you should buy it as soon as you can do so without cutting into more important things (vil production, aging up, or army.) Green and blue also bought wheelbarrow way earlier than needed.

    Wheelbarrow takes as long to produce as 3 vils, making it a big investment early on.

    Good rules of thumb are to get wheelbarrow after you have around 35-40 population, or around 15-20 farmers.

    Earlier than that will just hurt your eco rather than help.

    (continued in reply, cut off by character limit)

    #22831
    [deleted]
    Guest

    [removed]

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