Why Do We Accept Goths as a Low Tier Group in Our Community?
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Goths consistently rank at the bottom of tier lists for both open and closed 1v1 maps. Even experienced players on maps like Arena and Arabia don’t rate them highly. While there are a few pros who like playing as Goths in tournaments, their late-game weaknesses are often easily exploited by other civilizations like Hindus or Gurjaras. Although Goths are known for their strong infantry, they can easily be outdone by other civilizations on the battlefield. As players reach higher elo levels, Goths become increasingly average. Even if you manage to survive long enough to create a castle for huskarls or spam other units, their lack of last armor hurts their chances in trash fights. Pros have found that the elite skirms and hussar combo is highly effective against armorless champs. To increase Goths’ ranking from D to C tier on Arabia or Arena maps, some balance changes could be implemented to address their weaknesses.
Goths are viable, however at the very highest level civs with early eco bonuses trump all. Goths are slow but imo they are very well balanced because they are a swing for the fences civ. Either you get to spam or you lose. However would be crazy if they got arbs.
Maybe they can get a small infantry buff – but only for champion line (not halbs). Otherwise they are fine. Unique civ. Fun late game and they can play a great role in team game clown maps.
Having interesting civ is more important than having balanced civ. Ideally you have both, but at least goths have a unique/interesting playstyle.
One oblivious change is to make infantry from feudal age 35% cheaper again like AoC, the decrease of his was a bizarre nerf. Also some sort of compensation for other civs getting supplies in DE.
Why is it Arena clowns and Arabia pros?
There is worse civ than goth
If you like the civ and you think picking it gives you a disadvantage, then tough luck .
Would you rather all the civ are just the same instead?
I haven’t played in a while but I am a goths only player. Goths are very fun and powerful but a one trick pony. My advice to an aspiring goth player is to play hyper aggressive, scout well and adapt to your opponent. You’ll want to end a 1v1 as early as you can ideally by early castle if not feudal. Think hoang but replace catapults with a mass of huskarl
Only time goths are good on arena is if pocket and civ win.fun as fuck to play though.
Their huscarls are amazing
I just saw a tier list from Hera/Heartt/Lierry today that placed them worst in the game.
Because if they’re not low tier they’re OP. It’s how the civ is. It would be silly to not accept it for what it is.
I certainly wouldn’t complain if the devs buffed Goths, but that’s because it may very well turn the Goth-Condo rush from a good strat into an absolutely busted strat.
I’m honestly not sure why folks don’t use this strat more often on closed maps (e.g., Arena, Fortress, Black Forest, Amazon Tunnel, Michi). It absolutely slaps and isn’t even hard to pull off.
Goths are a lategame nightmare, yes you can win in the lategame, but unless you happen to have one of the handfull of civs with a great answer you will struggle.
Goths are ok in the early game but fall apart in the midgame, and don’t have the tools to wall up and defend themselves till the lategame.
Any buff to them would mean getting to the lategame easier, the question than becomes, if goths can get consistently to said late game are they still a balanced civ?
I personally believe they wouldn’t be, if every game started in imp with 100 vills, goths would probably be among the stronger civs.
But then do you want to take away what they are known for?
I think goths can use some love, but it’s dangerous.
I would change their pop bonus to be a % of the max pop.
If the max is 75 and you get +15 thats a huge bonus, at 200 pop it’s a minor bonus.
The community is fine with this because they either don’t like goths or don’t care about them.
Goths need full reworking to be balanced and usable.
The main problem is that their spam can just outright beat most civs in the late game (gunpowder/infantry civs do have better chances at winning) so buffing them just causes them to be OP but nerfing them hurts their identity as a flood civ.
Changes that could be made are:
– Perfusion only increases production by 50% or 25%
– Infantry discount is nerfed to 20 or 25% only
– “Eco Bonuses” get replaced by good bonuses
– Hunters don’t need to drop off food
– Nerf to huskarl production speed
– +10% pop space
To me these are the only options to make them usuable/viable.
Another option is to just ignore goths because their win rate is still around 45% which isn’t horrible. (Seriously, in 1200+ they have around 47%, in 1500+ 48% on arabia)
They are a plague in team games on arena.
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